Politics in the Animal Kingdom: Single Transferable Vote

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The 2014 Midterm Elections are coming up in the United States so it's time for another installment of 'Politics of the Animal Kingdom'. Make sure to start at part one if you haven't seen them all: noburn.info/id/video/2WvXiKx7lqChsKA.html
Also, Stickers! cgpgrey.com/animalstickers
Official discussion at: www.reddit.com/r/cgpgrey
EXTRA: STV Election Example noburn.info/id/video/p5ecYZthf4GFjJg.html
Footnote * from STV: Proportional Systems vs STV noburn.info/id/video/nnixpdebcm-Elno.html
Footnote † from STV: Switch To STV noburn.info/id/video/tqnOhKieYIp8aXY.html
Footnote ‡ from STV: Hare Vs Droop noburn.info/id/video/3YbGZ5dhcouMgJg.html
Special thanks to:
Nail Garejev
J.D. Purcell
Kirsten M. Gray
Neil Flynn Bell
Chris B
Alexander Budd
Zero Pyros Harkonnen
Matt Parfrey
Filip Serfezi
Andrés Isaza
Patrick Warren
Marko Milanovic
Bobby Block
Gem Newman
Kat Mingram
Jan Strojil
Alexander Gonzalez (emeryradio)
Joey Heimburger
Brian Dudek
Ben Mitternacht
John M Harman
Rena Seville
Conjecture (MM)
Phoenix Maa
Kieran Cox
Jason Furente
Filip "Spotty" Serfezi
Claire Loptson
Myndert Papenhuyzen
Jared Backhouse (KingJaredoftheLand)
Jason Parker (MSU)
Adrian Häußler
Alex Champagne-Gélinas
Alyssa Nitta
Kira Lanier
Tyler Gambrill
David Harrison
Victor Johansson
Max Ramsay
Alex Nainer
Sir Daniel G. Leonard The Great
Chris Kitching
Brian Peterson
Ron Bowes
TÛmas ¡rni JÛnasson
Michael Morden
Derek Bonner
Derek Jackson
Alex Lira
Sokhom Chhim
Shawn Bazin
Finn Kelly
Bryant Cruz
Andrew Reif
Christine Dˆnszelmann
Max Parrella
Mackenzie Hauck
J¯rgen Danielsen
Eren Polat
Mark Elders
James Fox
Veronica Peshterianu
Daniel Heeb
Juan Villagrana
Ernesto Jimenez
Paul Tomblin
Travis Wichert
Andrew Bailey
Israel Armando
Keegan Riley
Yousef Hasan
Ruud Hermans
Alex Morales
Ryan E Manning
Erik Parasiuk
Rhys Parry
Arian Flores
Jennifer Richardson
Maarten van der Blij
Bjˆrn MorÈn
Eric Stangeland
Rustam Anvarov
Sam Kokin
Kevin Anderson
Gustavo Jimenez
Thomas Petersen
Osric Lord-Williams
Myke Hurley
Ryan Nielsen
Esteban Santana Santana
Terry Steiner
Dag Viggo Lok¯en
Tristan Watts-Willis
Ian N Riopel
John Rogers
Edward Adams
Nicolae Berbece
Alex Prescott
Alexander Kosenkov
Hugh Laird
Daniel Slater
Sunny Yin
Sigurur SnÊr EirÌksson
Maxime Zielony
ken mcfarlane
Aaron Miller
Bill Wolf
Himesh Sheth
Thomas Weir
Caswal Parker
Brandon Callender
Stephen Litt Belch
Sean Church
Pierre Perrott
Eliud Vasquez
Heemi Kutia
Timothy Moran
Peter Lomax
Quin Thames
ÿrjan Sollie
Kelsey Wainwright
Richard Harrison
Robby Gottesman
Ali Moeeny
Lachlan Holmes
Jonas Maal¯e
John Bevan
Martin Thomassen
Dan Hiel
Elizabeth Keathley
John Lee
Tijmen van Dien
thomas van til
Drew Stephens
Owen Degen
Tobias Gies
Alex Schuldberg
Ryan Constantin
Jerry Lin
Rasmus Svensson
Jacob Ostling
Cody Fitzgerald
Guillaume PERRIN
John Waltmans
Solon Carter
Joel Wunderle
Andrew Proue
David Lombardo
Tor Henrik Lehne
David Palomares
Connor Rosine
Cas EliÎns
paul everitt
Karl Johan Stensland Dy
Freddi H¯rlyck
Runtime: 07:11


John Griffith
John Griffith - Dag siden
What the USA has desperately needed for decades
I-lose - Dag siden
4:04 what are you doing step gorilla?
Qardo - 2 dager siden
As one of the Oxen Minority. This System sucks! Our votes don't count! Down with the Queen Lion!
finn morgan
finn morgan - 3 dager siden
Charlie diamond has

a tiny willy
Daniel Breen
Daniel Breen - 3 dager siden
charlie diamond has little arms
little little arms
Charlie _
Charlie _ - 3 dager siden
Finn Morgan snorts coke pass it on
James Leather
James Leather - 4 dager siden
How do you determine which votes are extra?
Iggybart05 - 4 dager siden
i've seen this video before and now i have a question. in the extra votes case, how do you decide which votes get transfered? because white tiger might have had some people backing him who's second choice was one of the gorilla's.
Mr Shmister
Mr Shmister - 4 dager siden
1:01 meet the spy
some nonsense
some nonsense - 4 dager siden
Wait, since when was the monarch if Armelio a female?
jhk ahu
jhk ahu - 12 dager siden
next vid about std please
Wayne P
Wayne P - 12 dager siden
The state of Alaska (Nov 2020) just passed the kind of election reforms that every state needs so America can change its federal government to work for all its people.
ranked-choice voting + open primaries
Apocalypse Lemon
Apocalypse Lemon - 14 dager siden
In reality the monkey wins, but is entirely funded and working for the owls.
Craig - 15 dager siden
Battle Royale
Tharun Ramarajan
Tharun Ramarajan - 16 dager siden
aren't we animals?
Mask McGee
Mask McGee - 16 dager siden
Another tpyical racist therory, assuming everyone only votes for someone the same race as them.
Jack Ward
Jack Ward - 3 dager siden
Yeah the animal races are representing political party’s
Symmetrie Bruch
Symmetrie Bruch - 17 dager siden
now combine that with coalitions and you have an even better systems since minorities can beat popular parties if they have enough in common and band together to form a coalition. the winning coalition would have to compromise when governing between it´s members in order to not risk the coalition falling apart, if it does that means a new election. that´s basically what we have here in germany. far from perfect but a lot better what the poor souls in us and uk have to deal with
Pencils and Pens
Pencils and Pens - 20 dager siden
why are all the monkeys pogchamp
Zdravko Kostov
Zdravko Kostov - 20 dager siden
ProfessorPine - 20 dager siden
Someone show this to the UN
Joshua Gibbons
Joshua Gibbons - 22 dager siden
2:39 the turtle is social distancing more than most humans lol
M BARIQ - 27 dager siden
i though this video would be about animal hierarchy system, but it's just politics, human politics
Mohammad Ateeb
Mohammad Ateeb - 28 dager siden
It is Queen ''Lioness"
Mosammat Jannatul Pervin
Mosammat Jannatul Pervin - 28 dager siden
Now i don't need to go to school
Sean Clark
Sean Clark - 28 dager siden
How do we the people ask they the powerful to change how they the powerful get their power (Nicely)?
Derva Kommt von hinten
Derva Kommt von hinten - 29 dager siden
but how do you choose WHO´S extra vote goes to another candidate. maybe half the tigers had tiger for their second choice, half had gorilla. so who do you give the excess votes to?
Rayyan Mehar
Rayyan Mehar - 29 dager siden
this would only work with @animals
Derva Kommt von hinten
Derva Kommt von hinten - 29 dager siden
i dont think tigers inhabit the same territory as lions
My1 - Måned siden
How does it work tho if the second choices of a winner with overflow are not all the same, how do we decide which votes flow over and which are the one the candidate takes to win?
01of10 - Måned siden
Oh, look! Another great thing we`ll never see happening due to established power structures.
Leandro Donada
Leandro Donada - Måned siden
Plot twist: they actually dont need a government
Digaddog - Måned siden
So what happens when the excess voters are split between candidates? For instance, lets say there are 20 votes with
Tiger: 1
Lion: 2
And 15 with
Tiger: 1
Turtle: 2
If you need 20 votes to win a seat, who gets the excess?
Adam - Måned siden
What if 33 % rank White tiger first, then the other tiger, but the other 33 % rank white tiger first but a gorilla second. Who would get the extra votes?
Adam - Måned siden
@ymmij X In theory yes, but what is the algorithm that does this correctly, in a way that always leads to the same result every time you apply it, even if there are layers upon layers of differently ranked votes? The worst thing can happen in a voting system is if it's disputed whether the counting is done correctly...
ymmij X
ymmij X - Måned siden
half go to other tiger and half to gorilla then move to the next step of eliminating the losing gorilla. Still the most approved candidates win
Ryan Sawin
Ryan Sawin - Måned siden
Lion king just got a whole lot more confusing
Foxy Gekkerson
Foxy Gekkerson - Måned siden
I would love to see videos on Range and STAR Voting.
Sehfisch - Måned siden
I know this Video is really old but still:
How do you determine which specific votes get transfered when a candidate has more votes than they need.
In reality not every white tiger voter would have picked normal tiger as second. Maybe some would have chosen whiteback gorilla. How does one determine which votes are the ones that stay with white tiger and which votes go to another candidate?
gay pinkfloyd
gay pinkfloyd - Måned siden
So it's alternative vote (I'm talking about the individual renges) but more than one candidate wins..
Or it's just proporzional vote in each district?
CCode0102 - Måned siden
This is great until you realize that biased bureaucrats are going to be controlling and switching the votes
Om Be
Om Be - Måned siden
The rlections are not fair because insects, repitiles and anphibians didn't even get to count as population
Dan Deo De la Cruz
Dan Deo De la Cruz - Måned siden
Then humans evolved and made their own civilizations that composed entirely of humans
Speedster14 5
Speedster14 5 - Måned siden
How do you determine who gets albino tigers votes?
Somerandomguybody - Måned siden
I’m confused. If they get more votes than they need, then who’s second choice vote is counted. Is it ppl who voted last that get second choice. Cuz you can have #1 be the same candidate but #2 be different
Mats Remi
Mats Remi - Måned siden
Flyingclam - Måned siden
STV just seems like an overcomplicated voting system that seems it would get in its own way. Imagine the infrastructure and anti-corruption measures to make sure all holes are plugged. Besides STV has been demonstrated in Australia, and Israel who has a very similar system, to basically result in two dominant parties or coalitions that make a two party system with extra steps
Asian Support
Asian Support - Måned siden
ranked choice voting!
John Johnson
John Johnson - Måned siden
This represents the USA well lol.
Fosina - Måned siden
Naygoats - Måned siden
I’m so glad that Australia uses this
CogitoErgoCogitoSum - Måned siden
Is the Alternative voting system an integral part of this approach or did you include it as demonstration of a possible scenario?
Skyval Ream
Skyval Ream - Måned siden
Yeah, STV is generally "based on" The Alternative Vote. IMO you could use the overarching idea to apply it to other voting systems though, in which case STV is an "adapter" which can be used to turn a variety of single-winner methods into party-agnostic proportional methods. 1. Find a winner using the single-winner method 2. Find the quota of ballots which are most satisfied by that winner 3. Seat the winner and eliminate those ballots 4. Repeat with remaining candidates and ballots So you just need to use a method who's ballots can be sorted by satisfaction (so probably not Plurality/FPTP). Of course there are variants of this. You could instead find a most-satisfied quota of ballots for each candidate (allowing overlaps) and elect whichever candidate grants the most satisfaction for their quota (and eliminate those ballots, then repeat). And you can do it via deweighting ballots instead of eliminating them, which removes issues with randomness or equally satisfied ballots. Even traditional STV isn't quite equivalent to this when applied to AV.
CogitoErgoCogitoSum - Måned siden
3:53 What if Lynx's votes didnt go to Tiger but to Monkey?
IceBug1337 - Måned siden
This system may be fair and ideal and stuff but no one would understand it, be suprised of the outcome, scream "fake news" and burn something down.
IceBug1337 - Måned siden
2:27 i see three hexagons
Sam Chittenden
Sam Chittenden - Måned siden
Hey, this is how Australia's elections work (read; are meant to work)
Ben - Måned siden
Team jackalope sucks bruv
Johan Lucas Grüner
Johan Lucas Grüner - Måned siden
Oh, so subtle :)
Arigadatred - Måned siden
But how can you know who people's second choice will be? What if some white tiger voters had silverback as their second choice, others had tiger, and others had gorilla? Would the election still come out fair?
It seems like it would, since the important thing is the ability to rank one's choices, and this is just a simplified model, but I'm not sure.
Ty - Måned siden
Remember that there's absolutely no reason our political candidates cannot engage in multi-hour discussions over podcasts, giving long-form elaborations on their personal positions and views instead of sound bites. We shouldn't be faced with a choice between a Turd Sandwich and a Giant Douche, and if we continue allowing "parties" to tell us who we're allowed to vote for, we're doomed.
Andrew Yang deserved better. Ron Paul deserved better. Down with traditional media.
the cool congle
the cool congle - Måned siden
4:08 everybody gets a monkey
William Sutter
William Sutter - Måned siden
The New South Wales Legislative Council is probably the single most proportionally representative legislative chamber elected using single transferable vote (STV). It has 42 seats, every four years half of these up for grabs and single transferable vote at-large (everyone voting in the same electorate) is used to elect these members. As there are so many candidates running that it's unrealistic to expect voters to be able to follow what every single candidate is saying and doing, a group voting ticket (where voters assign preferences for parties instead of candidates) is used.
Lordlouckster - Måned siden
You used Hare quota. How about Droop quota? votes/(seats+1)+1
It's fairer.
In process to delete
In process to delete - Måned siden
You don’t mention the downsides, why?
Jack Ward
Jack Ward - Måned siden
Which are?
In process to delete
In process to delete - Måned siden
You don’t mention the downsides, why?
GRAYRAPTOR13 ! - Måned siden
But this wouldn’t work in the real world because how would we choose which extra votes change and which don’t
Hutt racing
Hutt racing - Måned siden
@Ender Gamer Are you from Ireland, if so up the dubs
GRAYRAPTOR13 ! - Måned siden
@Ender Gamer also explain how it works
GRAYRAPTOR13 ! - Måned siden
@Ender Gamer they use ranked voting, not this
Ender Gamer
Ender Gamer - Måned siden
You know Ireland and other countries use this system right?
Jay Man
Jay Man - Måned siden
Ya just got a own the media
Alexey Tsybyshev
Alexey Tsybyshev - Måned siden
There is at least one problem not mentioned here. In reality you have to compile the data on all the ballots that come in over a large number of voting booths in an observable and transparent way. If you have n candidates, you have to transmit more than n! numbers, the numbers of votes for each ordering of candidates. It might make for a very confusing situation in case of discrepancies, and the election observers might not know what to look for in case of the vote being rigged.
Rychleji - Måned siden
I don't get this.
How do you give extra votes of someone to someone else? It's nice and easy if you divide it by kinds. But what happens IRL? We are not monkeys and gorillas. What if I wanted cool tiger to win but I mark the old gorilla as my second choice because the second tiger is a dick? So because I voted cool tiger and he got a lot of votes I helped some dick to get elected just because he's from a same party?
Ender Gamer
Ender Gamer - Måned siden
Im guessing the candidates would have to give those extra votes, most likely to someone similar, or you use the next down choices of all silver tiger voters, and they votes could go to who ever gets a plurality
Robeon Mew
Robeon Mew - Måned siden
Why does this sound like the US election system so accurately?
Ender Gamer
Ender Gamer - Måned siden
it isn't, sooooo
Arugal1993 - Måned siden
is this actually been used somewhere???? i like it that why i ask?
Skyval Ream
Skyval Ream - Måned siden
Australia's upper house (their lower house uses the single-winner variant too)
Ender Gamer
Ender Gamer - Måned siden
Ireland, and some others, but most notably Ireland
Ashley Johnson
Ashley Johnson - Måned siden
Queen lion changes the voting system
Monkeys: Now that’s bananas!!
Shaamaan - Måned siden
Sounds great... now lets see people, who sometimes have trouble voting for ONE candidate, correctly grade the candidates on their ballots...
Zachary Dubón
Zachary Dubón - 2 måneder siden
Correction the are not monkeys they are pog monkeys
moofymoo - 2 måneder siden
2:05 - haha, monkeys get 34% because of rounding, monkeys always find a way in politics!
jbz3 - 2 måneder siden
Bananas 🍌
Ly Tran
Ly Tran - 2 måneder siden
The Buffalo, Tiger, Owl, Lynx, and Tarceir (I definitely spelled that wrong, sorry). all used this as a campaign against the monkeys.
Arthur Something
Arthur Something - 2 måneder siden
In Germany we have a much weirder but also more akkurat system - it is more complex but guarantees local representation as well as an exact representation of the popular vote
XaneZ - 2 måneder siden
Why is no one talking bout the monkey pogging
Tim Sawyer
Tim Sawyer - 2 måneder siden
2:20 Didn't turn out well for the buffalo in the first graph showing the animals @ 0:42... Just sayin! No matter how "fair", someone is always getting screwed...
I like pie
I like pie - 2 måneder siden
6:40 I spy a jackalope!
NoBankBob - 2 måneder siden
5:54 the numbers are incorrect 😡
NoBankBob - Måned siden
@Haikal yes but gorilla hav 34% not 33% as projected on the chart to the right, problem with not typing out decimals I guess, doesnt matter
Haikal - Måned siden
@NoBankBob Exactly, so the total is 100%
NoBankBob - Måned siden
@Haikal what, gorilla has 34% not 33% :)
Haikal - Måned siden
Are you stupid
DRaggZilla - 2 måneder siden
the jungle Kingdom irl: "hey you! confused unga bunga come, you're our new ruler"
Lex Prontera
Lex Prontera - 2 måneder siden
The main FLAW lies not in the system itself,
but how to put it in place.
The authorities deciding on it need to either want it,
or be replaced with (enough of) those who do.
dual inline
dual inline - 2 måneder siden
My country is full of crocodiles.
HorrorThe Horradon
HorrorThe Horradon - 2 måneder siden
mumke pog
totalanimalaction ofive
totalanimalaction ofive - 2 måneder siden
mumke pog
Jazz Hands
Jazz Hands - 2 måneder siden
Problem: who decides *which* extra votes go to the next candidate? if white tiger gets 65%, which votes of the 32% extra get checked for who their second favourite was? there would have to be the possibility of voters who wanted white tiger as #1 and one of the gorillas as #2. do you check every single vote of the 65% and see who had the majority of 2nd place votes to assign the 32% extra bump to? or divide the 32% excess proportionally out to the other candidates based on what the 2nd choice was of all the voters in the 65% majority block?
Davi Salomão Garcia Lopes
Davi Salomão Garcia Lopes - 2 måneder siden
big problem: what half of the unused votes will go to the other candidate?
Jakub Nejman
Jakub Nejman - 2 måneder siden
I have a question concerning this approach, specifically about votes over threshold being transferred to next candidate. Let's say that there are three candidates, Tiger, Gorilla and Owl and two seats. Tiger gets 20%, Gorilla gets 20% and Owl gets 60%. Owl is chosen and then the votes are transferred, but there is a problem with second votes - half of the Owl supporters like Tiger and other half Gorilla as second choice (Let's say that Tiger supporter's like Gorilla as second choice and vice versa). Where are votes transferred? Is it proportional, so that all votes are counted and then extra votes are split based on that proportion? Or is it that first votes counted go to owl and then votes that are extra go to whoever is next? Or is it that counting commissions can say: "hey, we like Tiger, let's take all Owl supporters who also like Tiger and use their votes as extra votes to make sure that he's the one elected"?
Pend0 - 2 måneder siden
Omg I saw this in school 3 years ago!!
Matt Orlando
Matt Orlando - 2 måneder siden
I don't like how you conveniently gave the 13% from the Lynx to the Tiger to make your numbers work perfectly. What if 5% went to Monkeys, 5% went to Apes, and 3% went to the Tigers. They wouldn't reach your 33% mark but you don't address that scenario at all. Would it simply be that since we want 3 representatives, and at that point there are only 3 left, that we just default to them? You should've covered that I think.
Gummiel - 2 måneder siden
Then you would have overflow of votes for one, and thus the overflow would go to their next choice. At the end of the process there would always end up with an event split of votes between all candidates since you have both those mechanics of either eliminating and transferring the eliminates votes or transfer the overflow vote, so no vote will ever end up wasted, at worst it just wont be the 1st or 2nd choice maybe but still one you would be okay with
anonymous user
anonymous user - 2 måneder siden
isn’t this AV with extra steps
senko ukura
senko ukura - 2 måneder siden
Going to the scenario at 4:40 what would happen if white tiger voters 2nd choice was split between the other tiger and one of the monkys?
Who's vote would stay with white tiger and who's vote would get sent to their 2nd choice?
Salman Haider
Salman Haider - 2 måneder siden
This problem lies in India.
GreenApple Life
GreenApple Life - 2 måneder siden
I know no one will see this but what white tiger votes are considered extra like in a normal election some white tiger voters would would be different from others so how is it decided what votes are extra
James Sweeney
James Sweeney - 2 måneder siden
Also means that you have to do research about each candidate
Slurpyboi- Gaming
Slurpyboi- Gaming - 2 måneder siden
Monkeys don’t win
Monkeys: BANANAS!
War Beaver
War Beaver - 2 måneder siden
Gorillas are monkeys.
Skaianet - 2 måneder siden
That’s like saying all Ferraris are Fords
ILikeToBeWithPeople - 2 måneder siden
In this system full ranking should be mandatoru
uneventful. - 2 måneder siden
can we all the talk about how gorgeous these stickers are
kelvin lie
kelvin lie - 2 måneder siden
Hol up, this looks kinda similar to australia preferential voting system
Fossil co. Art related Documents
Why can't we just dispose of the monkeys
Linus Jesse
Linus Jesse - 2 måneder siden
This is actually how the Iowa caucuses work except you physically move when you don't pass the needed count